From founding the menswear label, Faculty, and leading the branding consultancy &Larry, Peh now channels his attention (and love for sake) into his latest venture, NORMAT. The brand, developed under Archivist—a company he co-founded with Craig Neo and Keith Ong—launched its inaugural line of sake, offering a modern twist on a tradition. Peh’s dedication led him to Japan, where he personally visited breweries to pitch his vision. We sat with him at ÁTIPICO | ROOM #15 to discuss his journey into sake and the launch of NORMAT.
ESQUIRE: How did you first come across sake?
LARRY PEH: I can’t remember exactly. Maybe around 15 years ago. I’ve never been a fan of wine, especially red wine, probably because I’m sensitive to tannins. Maybe less so from super expensive wine.
ESQ: What happens when you drink alcohol or wine?
LP: I get headaches and can’t function the next day (laughs). I had a billionaire client from Tokyo who loves sake. He had breweries exclusively making sake for him, different kinds for different meals or events, like meetings, lunches, dinners or celebrations. One night before a big presentation, the company threw a huge celebration and I had a lot of sake. I didn’t notice the amount I had until one of the clients asked if I’d be okay for the presentation the next morning. That’s when I recalled I had to be up early for it, but, of course, I said yes.
ESQ: How did you feel the next day?
LP: I completely forgot about the drinking and went ahead with my presentation. I did great and people applauded. As I was leaving, the same client from the night before said he had a great night. That’s when I made a connection ” Oh my God, this is actually my superpower.”
That’s how my obsession with sake started. I travelled around Nagano, and Hiroshima in Japan, supporting local sake breweries. Every manufacturer will have its own nuances and a different way of brewing. I would try different types and get drunk as a tourist walking around with small bottles but that’s how I discovered the brands I love.
ESQ: What brands do you like?
LP: The first one was Shichiken, which won some awards. To be honest, I didn’t know much at first, but just like every layman, I saw the award label and thought, “wah... it's award-winning, have to buy". I bought one bottle, drank it in my hotel room while doing some work and went on as usual the next day.
ESQ: How did the name NORMAT come about?
LP: It’s based on the word “normative,” meaning to make something a norm. I shortened it to NORMAT because I wanted to take something traditional, put it in a modern context, and set a new standard. For example, fried chicken and beer became a norm thanks to Korean culture. I want NORMAT to be the same. Whether it’s Indian food or Char Kway Teow, let’s pair it with NORMAT. That’s my hope for the name.
ESQ: So what’s your approach to sake?
LP: I wanted to create a sake that is both complex and simple, something anyone can enjoy. But most importantly, I wanted it to pair well with more than just Japanese food. Singapore has a global cuisine like French, Italian, Peranakan, Indian dishes, you name it. My sake should work with all of them. I remember I experimented by ordering all kinds of food and trying different sake pairings during COVID-19. I mean I had nothing better to do, it was lockdown season.
ESQ: Was there a baseline of cuisines to experiment with?
LP: I didn’t have a baseline. I never knew what my wife would cook or what friends might bring over, so I’d try different sakes with whatever came. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not. I took notes and figured out what kind of sake would work best.
ESQ: So a lot of trial and error?
LP: Yes definitely, and eventually I realised I had something. I created a sake that could work with almost any dish. That’s how NORMAT sake came to be. I didn’t want to focus on pairing, like “this sake goes with this dish.” I wanted harmony, a sake that balances with the food, not clashes.
ESQ: It’s like a new discovery.
LP: Yeah exactly, I kept looking at the market and I saw a gap. Nobody was really doing what I wanted to do. So I kept working on it until I got it.
I talked about pairing earlier, which comes from the culinary world like wine and sake pairing. Sake has gotten into this pairing trend, but to me, that felt more like a burden. When you talk about pairing, it’s like me with you, or A with B, but I thought what if we stop thinking about pairing and look for some kind of harmony instead? A balance where sake doesn’t clash with whatever you’re eating. If it clashes, forget it, drink water or something else.
So that is why we created the one-of-a-kind NORMAT sake. I couldn’t make one bottle to go with everything, so I made two. Maybe next year we’ll have a third. But for now, these two can go with almost everything.
ESQ: You’re very confident. What makes you so sure?
LP: Some dishes will work beautifully and harmoniously. For others, it’ll just be nice to go with. If you take the idea of pairing out, there are a lot of things these two sakes can do. I’ve even tried them with pastries and coffee. I’m going against the grain. The Japanese might say, “You can’t do that with this,” but why not? I’m basically slowly pushing boundaries—not breaking them—but seeing where and how far sake can go.
ESQ: Did you get your ideal sake on your first try?
LP: What’s interesting is you can’t just add things and get it right, you have to brew it first. There was a lot of communication during the process. I had to get the trust and blessing from the farmers, that’s how it works traditionally. The brewery helps the farmer in summer, and the farmer helps the brewery in winter. I had to explain what kind of sake I wanted, and the farmer would tell me which rice would be best.
We drank a lot of sake to map out what we liked—notes from one, umami from another. I’d say, "The alcohol percentage is too low here, let’s mix this rice." Based on their experience and what I felt, we planned it all out, then we made it together. The first time I tasted it was straight from the tank, unpasteurised, undiluted. There’s a video online of my partner Craig and I tasting it and saying, “Yes, this is it.”
ESQ: How long did it take?
LP: Working with them took two years, but the actual brewing took about three to six months. We weren’t there all the time. After we planned everything, the brewing started, and we were there whenever they needed help.
ESQ: Are you able to replicate this process in other batches as well?
LP: Yes yes, it’s not a problem because it’s quite scientific for them. Also, I had the chance to farm on the land, which was a once-in-a-lifetime experience.
ESQ: How long did you farm for?
LP: Just for a day (laughs). But a lot of it is automated. We drove in a vehicle that couldn’t fit into some areas, that’s when the farmers manually planted it.
They created a beautiful logo using rice; you can see it on our Instagram. It changes colour with the seasons—from summer to autumn, winter and then [the leaves go] "botak" (Malay word for bald). You can see the logo transform through the seasons. I realised through working with them that trust and becoming like family are what make things happen. It’s different from just talking about money.
ESQ: Did you have to learn Japanese to communicate with them?
LP: I tried but I didn’t have time for formal lessons. My Japanese is bad and I can't speak much but I have a natural flair for understanding people even if I don’t speak the language. I use a translator, body language, and a few words I’ve picked up. They don’t always speak their minds so I pay attention to certain words or gestures to understand if I’m on the right track.
ESQ: What did you do when you were looking for a brewery to work with?
LP: I narrowed it down to a few brands I loved but everybody turned me down. Including Kubiki who finally agreed to work with me. They were one of the many who initially said no.
ESQ: Why did you go back to the brewery after they rejected you?
LP: It’s interesting because there are many sakes that I love, but Kubiki Shuzo wasn’t on my original list. I didn’t know about them and hadn’t tried their sake. A friend of a friend took me to Niigata to see some breweries and as usual, they refused.
We visited a bronze sculptor on the last day and he asked if we had tried Kubiki Brewery. I had never heard of it until he started praising it, saying he had tried every sake in Japan but always came back to Kubiki. I tried it and wasn’t sure at first. I returned to Singapore and continued trying other sakes but I couldn’t stop thinking about that brewery. I ordered more bottles and kept returning to them. There was something about their sake—this lingering aftertaste—the umami that stays with you. I went back again and again, proposing new ideas. Eventually, I think they were charmed by my sincerity and after many months, they finally said yes.
ESQ: Why do you think so many breweries rejected you?
LP: First of all, I'm an outsider. Secondly, they stick to tradition, and they probably thought I wasn’t serious. They didn’t tell me this directly, but I could feel it. Thirdly, maybe it was insulting to say I wanted to create a type of sake I couldn’t find. When I said that, it likely put them off—like, what do you mean we don’t have this kind of sake? They’d offer other sakes instead, thinking they already had what I was looking for. It felt more like competition than cooperation, rather than looking at my idea and saying, “You’re right, there’s a gap. Let’s create something new together.”
ESQ: What was your vision for working with sake?
LP: I wanted to create a brand that bridges traditions and modern design. The idea was, that if we love these traditional things, we can do something to keep them relevant so they don’t disappear. That’s how NORMAT started. When I sit with my parents or older folks, they always talk about how things used to be, and I hear the same from the Japanese.
ESQ: But sake isn’t going to die out, is it?
LP: It’s actually declining in Japan. There are about 1,700 breweries now, and only 1000 are still active.
ESQ: Why is that?
LP: Sake is typically seen as an old man’s drink in Japan and is mainly tied to Japanese food. The younger crowd prefers champagne and other “cool” drinks. Many first encounters with sake are bad experiences, like cheap sake, bad taste. Sake is growing globally but declining in Japan. For instance, Singapore is now ranked sixth in the world for premium imports, even though we’re a small country. The rest of the world is catching up while Japan lags behind.
As a sake sommelier myself, I still find it confusing when looking at sake. Especially from lesser-known brands with descriptions that require Google Translate. Many sake brands have become more modern with English labels but even so, there's still a bit of "mumbo jumbo" to figure it out. I thought what if I could create a sake that is complex yet simple enough for anyone to enjoy?
ESQ: You're known for collaboration in your design work. What’s special about collaborating with others?
LP: It’s the classic Singaporean story. We’re a small country so I can’t do everything in-house. I work with people who are experts in their fields and we share knowledge to create something new. It’s not about exploiting each other; if we both bring something strong and relevant, something great can happen. That’s how I’ve always worked, whether it was for &Larry or for NORMAT. The brewery saw my point of view and agreed it was worth experimenting and working to create something new.
ESQ: Does this mean the sake is only suited to Singaporean climates?
LP: No, one thing I’m proud of is its versatility. My favourite way to drink it is straight, which goes against the usual advice from breweries or sommeliers. Sake is traditionally meant to be paired with food but I wanted it to be something you can enjoy on its own. Whether you’re alone, watching Netflix, or at a small gathering, it should work. I told the brewery that they needed to check all these boxes. It was a tough brief, but they made it happen.
ESQ: It sounds almost too good to be true that a sake can fit so many palates.
LP: I think so, I’m confident in it but you have to try it for yourself to see how it behaves with different foods. One is more elegant and slightly sweet, while the other is drier and more acidic, so it pairs well with more complex dishes. Some people have described them as more masculine or feminine. You don’t need to be a sommelier to tell. Everyone’s taste buds are different, but either one won’t fail you. It’s about finding harmony.
Photography: Jaya Khidir
HENRY SEUNGYUN YANG: I came to Singapore two years ago, after Samsonite offered an opportunity for us to move from Hong Kong.
ESQUIRE SINGAPORE: Why? Did you not like Hong Kong?
HSY: I loved it. It’s a wonderful city that’s geographically close to every other country somehow. It’s closer to Korea than Singapore, which made it easy to fly back home from. There are Samsonite factories in China and they are now also looking to Southeast Asia—Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam—so here I am. But my family is happy in Singapore, and if they are happy, I’m happy.
ESQ: Are you going back for the holidays?
HSY: I just got back from Hong Kong actually. I go to Korea only once a year because flying with a baby [sighs loudly] for six hours can drive anyone crazy. Now, I do love my kids, but they can be quite naughty and don’t like sitting still for six hours.
ESQ: They are girls, yes? Do you have any preference for the gender of your children?
HSY: I don’t have a preference. The second girl was delivered in Singapore, while the first one was born in Hong Kong.
ESQ: When did you start wanting to be a designer?
HSY: Honestly, I never thought much about design back then. I was like any other kid, who loves going outside to play. I think every designer and artist starts out the same way: by drawing something and then finding out that they’re having fun doing it. My parents didn’t really say anything to dissuade me so I kept on drawing.
ESQ: That’s cool.
HSY: Yeah. If you know Korean parents you’ll know they aren’t usually this liberal. They will be like: you’ve got to be a doctor; you have to be a lawyer; study hard. But I was lucky that my parents were open to what I could do. I did study hard, mind you, but I didn’t go out of my way to be a scholar.
ESQ: Did you attend art school instead?
HSY: A couple of my friends suggested I should go to art school or something. When I got into university and it came time to select a major, I thought I would be a painter. I spoke with my art teacher at the time and she said, why don’t you be a designer because they earn more money? It’s hard to survive as an artist. So, I took her advice and studied industrial design. I eventually got a job in Hong Kong.
ESQ: What did you work on?
HSY: Back then, I designed phones, conference systems, cameras... it was fun.
ESQ: Do you still paint?
HSY: Well, I’m a bit busy with my kids these days. I do draw for them though, and that’s actually really fun.
ESQ: Are you guided by some sort of design philosophy?
HSY: I honestly don’t know. I’m not a super designer. I’m just normal. I don’t have any deep philosophical insight into this. However, the environment at Samsonite is such that we gather a lot of feedback from the market because our main aim is to design for people who travel. And when you focus on the people who use our luggage and bags, you push yourself to deliver user-centric design. I guess that is the key to how I work.
ESQ: Is getting feedback from marketing conducive to what you do?
HSY: We have regional offices across the globe. So, here at the Asian office we design for people in this region. Similarly, the US and Europe offices design for their respective demographics. We design separately simply because people’s lifestyles and travel habits are different around the world.
ESQ: Can you give us an example?
HSY: The European luggage and bags are more colourful and sporty. Even the businessmen in Europe tend to go for more casual bags, more colourful bags. The design vibe is expressive. But in Asia, consumers prefer minimalist designs. Colourwise, they go for black or navy or something neutral. In the US, they like luggage that’s more feature-driven. It’s utility over appearance for them. I’m talking broadly about the majority of the consumer base now. We handle a wide range of Samsonite products.
ESQ: Do you also have to talk to the department behind the tech?
HSY: Of course. That’s actually very important. We have to be updated on the latest tech all the time. That’s why we have a strong product development team on site and they will brief us on the advancements. The marketing team, design team, the product development team will sit together to discuss what models will be released. Marketing can talk about upcoming trends and results of market feedback; the PD team wants to reveal a certain feature or new material. And we, the design team take all that data and come up with designs.
ESQ: Do you like that sort of restriction?
HSY: Every designer needs to work with limitations. Without limitations, that’s art. So, sometimes when someone gives me carte blanche to do whatever, I’ll be like, I don’t know what to do. It’s always good to have a guideline, a limitation. I prefer to have that. It makes it more interesting. You need the input and whole mindset of others to make the job successful.
ESQ: You designed the Unimax Spinner and it won the Red Dot Design Award.
HSY: I’ve no idea why we won it—I didn’t get to talk to the judges so I don’t know [laughs]. But like I’ve said, this is one of our visions at Samsonite in terms of brand image and DNA. Samsonite has all kinds of designs—minimalist, explicit, fun, colourful... we have everything, but what is Samsonite’s DNA? That is the starting point.
We had a line called EVOA—same texture, no groove, very clean design. It was very successful. We believe Asian people prefer minimalist design. So we start with that, and then we say let’s improve on it. [Takes a Unimax Spinner; points to features] We put in more features like a front opening; a brake system; the Aero Trac Whirl Suspension Wheel... Normally, you’d have the logo on the front of the luggage but we’ve added the logo on the aluminium corner protector instead, where you can still see it when you look down.
At the time, in order to get a seamless design [that has curves], you’d need to mill and bend the piece, and this was an expensive process. We decided to postpone it until we managed to create that aluminium bar and corner protector. For our future product line, we’ve now managed to overcome the limitations and found a way to mill and bend multi-directionally. I think only Samsonite can do this.
ESQ: Is there a particular product you’ve done that you’re proud of?
HSY: [Points to the Unimax Spinner] This would be it. ESQ: What about something that’s not Samsonite?
HSY: Before I joined Samsonite, I worked for a company called Kohler.
ESQ: Ah, okay.
HSY: There was this toilet called Numi. I quite like this product. Very proud of it, in fact. The initial brief was: what if we can make a supercar version of a toilet? Like a Ferrari. It sounded funny but I was quite ambitious. Ok, let’s make something cool. So, the Numi was given voice control, a lot of lighting options, seat temperature, sensors that know if it’s you or someone else...
ESQ: Oh? Does it have bespoke settings for individual users?
HSY: Oh yeah! You can set it up for five or six people. When you enter the bathroom, the Numi will make a sound and light up, the seat cover rises and you sit on it. So, your pre-programmed temperature and wand position are adjusted for you.
ESQ: How does it know it’s you?
HSY: It knows you by your height and weight. There’s a sensor there. And if you want to flush, you can just say, hey, Numi, flush. When it plays music, the lighting changes... it was quite a crazy project but our team loved working on it.
Funny thing is even, though the design is done, the project remained stalled when I left. They were still working on fixing the features and that was done with a year ago. I worked on Numi for three years and left Kohler about six years ago, and it went on for another five years but they launched it. Outside of Samsonite, I feel really proud of Numi.
ESQ: Is music part of your process?
HSY: That’s a good question. Music is part of culture, am I right? So, I believe it does help. But you’ll need to experience the culture that the music is from to actually see something different.
ESQ: What is this lens that you peer through?
HSY: Even though I’m way past teenage, I still like listening to rap and hip-hop. My wife is always laughing at me, oh, you’re not a child any more, you know? Why don’t you listen to classical music or something like that?
ESQ: The luxury market is trying to infuse street culture into its products and marketing.
HSY: I feel quite weird about that because the hip-hop that I was into back then was kind of niche. Back in the day, no one really followed hip-hop. A lot of Korean parents didn’t really like it, but it appealed to me. Now, hip-hop has become super popular and every brand is doing streetwear, and promoting their wares with modern music that feature hip-hop elements.
ESQ: It’s gone mainstream.
HSY: That is why it’s hard to say that I’m into hip-hop music now, because I don’t want to be part of this mainstream. If I tell people that I’m into hip-hop, they’d think I’m just following a trend, and that couldn’t be further from the truth.
ESQ: What is that one piece of design that you wish you had done?
HSY: I like Fukasawa Naoto. He’s an industrial designer who did work with Muji. I like his philosophy. One of the things he said that really impressed me was that a product doesn’t need to stand out. It needs to harmonise with your life because you see it every day. That’s why his design is very minimalist. That’s a pretty strong message as an industrial designer.
Of course, I don’t really do it that way. I still like colours but I respect what he has built during his design life. I like Virgil Abloh as well. He’s gone now, sadly, but what he’d done for the fashion industry was quite amazing. He started as an architect but he’s done awesome stuff for Nike and Louis Vuitton.
(Salehe) Bembury is another designer I like. He also started out as an industrial designer. Ah, Errolson Hugh as well. He’s crazy good. I wish I could meet him one day.
ESQ: How do you stay creative?
HSY: One of the best ways is meeting people, eating good food, having fun, travel.
ESQ: That’s basically, just living.
HSY: [Laughs] Yes. Can I show you something? [Takes out a Streamlite Neo model] You see the clean design, right? But if you looked inside... [shows a vintage pattern], I found the design from the Samsonite archives. We have a black variant of the pattern as well.
ESQ: So, this and the EvoaZ and Major Lite are the next models we can expect from Samsonite?
HSY: We are still in discussion but we need to cater to different opinions. It’s up to marketing. I’ve no idea. This takes time but this is how we work. I’m ok with it. No harm waiting, we’ll see what happens. But if the project stalls too long, then we’ll lose the chance to launch it.
ESQ: Like the Numi.
HSY: That’s right. [laughs]
ESQ: What’s the next big thing in design?
HSY: Sustainability.
ESQ: That’s every company’s buzzword.
HSY: Yes, but we need to figure it out. Using recycled material, do you think that’s sustainability? I don’t think so. I think it’s more than that. It’s about the cycle. Using recycled material in the product is the easy part but that doesn’t tackle the root problem. There’s something more to this and I can’t put my finger on it just yet.
Oh, but this is too serious. Maybe, the next big thing is luggage for space travel, who knows? Maybe it’ll be a combination with a drone so you don’t need to carry your luggage.
ESQ: Or you can attach the drone to your bag and you can carry it so you can fly. Like Doraemon.
HSY: Yeah. Exactly. That would be fun. There are already people out there who can ride on motorised luggage. I’m not sure when a drone version would happen, but I look forward to seeing it.
“The Spirit of the Faubourg” is Hermès’ theme for the year, referencing the Maison’s iconic first flagship that still stands at its original address at 24 rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré. You may think that it’s somewhat of a disconnect then that Lauren Clay, a visual artist based in New York, was given carte blanche to design artist windows for Hermès’ Singapore flagship. But perhaps Clay’s dream-like, almost mystical oeuvre is the perfect way to channel the Hermès spirit. Clay tells us all about it as she readies to present her first ever window to fellow artists in Singapore.
ESQUIRE SINGAPORE: The theme for Hermès this year is “The Spirit of the Faubourg”. What does it mean to you?
LAUREN CLAY: I’m fascinated by the concept of “place” and the unique qualities that a city or building holds. Sometimes we refer to this as “vibes.” The ancient Romans had a term, "genius loci," which is Latin and translates to “the spirit of a place.” This term, “genius loci,” also describes the atmosphere or character of a space. This is an idea that I’ve been inspired by for many years.
Regarding the theme “The Spirit of the Faubourg”, I aimed to capture the feeling of visiting the Hermès rue du Faubourg store, which for me, resonates with the experience of visiting Paris. The store embodies all of the beautiful aspects of Paris that we all love. I also wanted to convey the sense of discovery within the store, highlighting the various elements and unique architectural details it contains. There are numerous pieces from the collection and Hermès family history throughout the store. In my window installation, I wanted to evoke the feeling of exploring and encountering the unexpected.
ESQ: Is that how the name "The Traveller" came about for the windows?
LC: Yes. In the rue du Faubourg store, I particularly admire the main staircase— the curvature of the marble steps and the way they wrap through the different levels of the store. I aimed to capture that in the window display.
In my work, I often try to evoke the feeling of standing on the threshold between the natural world and some other realm. I think this sensation is familiar to most of us in dreams, where we encounter the familiar juxtaposed with the strange or unexpected. It’s similar to the feeling of being a traveler. I appreciate the way Hermès often captures this sensation in their storytelling.
I have a deep appreciation for architecture and ancient art history. Although I studied painting in school, my love for architecture and decorative arts significantly influences my work. The Hermès Faubourg store stands out in that regard.
ESQ: It reminds me of your work as well, because you do feature a lot of stairs in your artworks.
LC: Exactly. I frequently use stairs as a symbol in my work, drawing on art history. Many painters and sculptors have used stairs as a psychological symbol of transition. For example, William Blake’s painting of Jacob’s Ladder and Martin Puryear’s "Ladder for Booker T. Washington" come to mind.
ESQ: What's the process like in creating "The Traveller"? Was it a deviation from your usual process?
LC: This installation was slightly different. Typically, when I create an exhibition for a gallery or museum, I start by making a model of the space and studying its architecture. Usually, I consider the path and vantage points that the viewer has as they walk through the space. However, for the Hermès window installation, the viewer has one main vantage point, which in a way, gave me more freedom. I knew I wanted to create an illusion of depth and space beyond the window. I began with sketches—probably around 20 ideas that only my husband saw—before choosing one and developing it further.
ESQ: Because you're also interested in architecture, did the architecture of the Liat Tower building kind of informed how it was going to look like as well?
LC: Because I live in New York, I hadn’t visited the Hermès Singapore store before, but I studied photos provided by the Hermès team and also different views of the building from the street view on Google Maps. In planning the window, I considered the architectural features, such as the height of the window. Creating this installation felt similar to creating a diorama or tableau, which aligns with my background in painting. A window offers a controlled view, similar to a painting.
ESQ: What was the biggest challenge in designing a window for Hermès?
LC: A key challenge was finding where my artistic vision and the Hermès aesthetic would intersect. I had to ensure both worlds remained distinct while complementing each other.
ESQ: Did you also have to consider where products would be placed or how they would be placed?
LC: Yes, I had a lot of freedom—pretty much full creative license, which was exciting, like a shopping experience.
ESQ: I've looked through a lot of what you've done before and there's clearly a sense of fantasy, dream-like reality to your work. And you often use a lot of pastel colours. Has anything from your own childhood informed or influenced the use of these colours?
LC: I think my colour palette is heavily influenced by growing up in the southern part of the United States. I went to school at the Savannah College of Art and Design, in Savannah, Georgia, one of America’s oldest cities known for its beautiful pastel Victorian and colonial architecture. After Savannah, I went to graduate school in Richmond, Virginia—also an old southern city. It’s hard to explain, but both of those cities have a distinct feeling of place and history. The unique atmosphere there contrasted with my suburban upbringing and profoundly influenced my artistic sensibility. All of my work, going back to college has been influenced by that experience.
ESQ: Is there a story behind the use of the specific colours for "The Traveller"?
LC: The colour palette emerged from collaboration with the Hermès team. Some of my initial sketches were darker, but I’m pleased it evolved into brighter tones. The pastels reflect the stone and marble of the original Faubourg store and work really well with Hermès’ colour palette.
ESQ: I read in previous interviews that you also kind of tie some of your works to dreams that you’ve had. Was there a specific dream that you had for "The Traveller"?
LC: I've been studying my dreams carefully for about five years now. In my dreams, I often find myself in familiar places, like a grandparent’s house, but I keep discovering hidden doors, stairwells, or entire rooms that I didn’t know were there. I have this type of dream frequently, and I wanted to bring that sensation into the Hermès installation—that feeling of discovery and mystery.
ESQ: Have you learnt anything from studying your dreams?
LC: Definitely. Yes, I feel like a completely different person after spending five years studying my dreams. I agree with Carl Jung’s idea that dreams often reveal parts of yourself that you didn’t know were there. Dreams come from the unconscious realm—quite literally, the part of you that you’re not aware of. Sometimes the unconscious can reveal something encouraging; other times, it stings a little. But it’s valuable information, and I’ve found studying my dreams to be really rewarding.
ESQ: Do you dream in colour?
LC: I do, and some dreams have particularly vivid colours, though not always. Colour is a whole other type of symbolic language.
ESQ: It does seem as well that your work mostly has this positive, dream-like energy. But I do feel that there are some darker influences in certain pieces.
LC: I'm curious what pieces you’re thinking of.
ESQ: For example, "Fix your eyes on the unseen realm" and “Lover’s Knot" I feel had darker undertones.
LC: I think what you’re picking up on is that feeling of witnessing something that is simultaneously familiar and uncanny. I'm intrigued by spiritual ideas and the realm of the unconscious, which is why I often discuss dreams in relationship to my work. I think most of us have experienced this feeling in our dreams; there’s a mysterious aspect to dreams. Carl Jung referred to it as “the numinous” aspect of dreams. The sculpture, “Lover’s Knot” is inspired by an old Scottish folk song, "Barbara Allen", which is about unrequited love and a couple who die and are buried next to each other. Out of one’s grave, a thorn bush grows, and out of the other, a rose bush, and they grow together, intertwined. It’s a folk song that influenced early country music, but there’s definitely a dark element to that reference.
ESQ: Is it important for you to keep your artwork kind of lighthearted?
LC: Given the darkness in the world, I prefer to bring light. The New York art scene can be very cynical and political, which isn’t my focus.
ESQ: It feels like your work is a collage of different ideas and references, that you then twist into your own vision. In some ways, to me, it echoes what AI does, right? Pulling out information from everywhere, and then generating an image. What are your thoughts on AI with respect to art?
LC: I find it fascinating. I’ve experimented with AI for generating ideas, and I think it’s an exciting tool. There are artists who have been successfully using it for years—like Jon Rafman. I’ve only played with it a bit but I’ve used it to inspire new concepts, feeding in images of my work and observing the results. It has sparked ideas for a few of my drawings. Sometimes it has good ideas. (laughs)
ESQ: There's this saying that likens a painting to a window and now that you've done an Hermès window, how do you feel about it?
LC: Working on this installation for Hermès felt particularly poignant because it literally serves as a window, offering a curated view into a space that is simultaneously real but impossible. Just as I do in all my work, for this project, I wanted to create a bridge between the familiar and the fantastical, allowing viewers to experience a moment of discovery.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Wang Congyu began playing the piano at three and is recognised as a complete musician and an exceptionally talented pianist. His early talent earned him a scholarship to the prestigious École Normale de Musique de Paris. Wang is an internationally renowned soloist, acclaimed as a recitalist, accompanist, and chamber musician. During his brief visit to Singapore in May, he spoke with us at a cafe in Dempsey.
ESQUIRE: Have you been travelling a lot?
WANG CONGYU: Yeah pretty much. Travelling from Singapore is easy and practical—you can go to Indonesia in an hour and return at night. If I lived [in Singapore], I’d probably travel every two or three days. However, I live on Réunion Island, where travel is more challenging. There are only two routes: one to Paris—an 11 to 12-hour flight—and the other to Bangkok. Additionally, I signed up with a cruise line this year, where I’ll head to Iceland and play in Antarctica this Christmas. I only signed up because my wife will be accompanying me. I often joke with her about how many people would love to be in her position, getting a free holiday while I’m working. After Christmas, we’ll spend time in Argentina for New Year’s.
ESQ: That’s so romantic.
WQY: I don’t know about the romance but it’ll be cold. We’re looking forward to seeing some penguins. Initially, the frequent travelling felt surreal. One week I’d be in China, the next in Japan, and then off to France—it was non-stop. They say time flies when you love what you do, and I agree. I can’t imagine myself stuck in an office. I used to teach a lot and own a couple of music schools. This year, I’m opening a new school in Shanghai. While I love teaching, doing it for seven hours a day, every day, can stifle your creative side. It feels like you’re losing half your life to routine.
ESQ: Do you find yourself being less driven because of that?
WQY: You’d only be less driven if you work with people you don’t like. Being driven is about knowing who you are and where you came from. I will never forget all the things I had to go through to get by, so the drive will always be there.
ESQ: Are you looking forward to the Olympics held in Paris?
WQY: I’d rather stay away from it, to be honest. The Olympics project in Paris can be quite disorganised. Normally, when you arrive at CDG (Charles-de-Gaulle Airport), the train to Paris takes about 45 minutes. So, they have Project Olympic Paris, which is to build a train that gets you to the city in 20 minutes.It’s set to finish in 2029 but the Olympics is happening this year. So French right?
ESQ: At least, there’s gonna be a super-fast train at the end of it.
WQY: Yeah, I suppose. But on the downside, Paris faces frequent strikes due to understaffing. In China, they’ve proved that it’s possible to build a hospital in five days, whereas in France, it could probably take five years. There was a scenario where the mayor expressed concerns about insufficient funds and manpower, leading to doubts about the readiness for Project Olympic Paris. When attempts were made to bring in additional workers, it sparked a strike due to a perceived lack of funding.Now, they’re considering shuttle buses instead of trains for the Olympics. Can you imagine the logistics? It seems best to avoid Paris during the Olympics; considering the exorbitant prices of three-star hotels, charging up to €500 a night. I’m always glad to be back home in Singapore
ESQ: So why live on Réunion Island?
WQY: My wife is from Réunion Island and is the main reason I chose to live there. We met when I was studying in Paris. She was doing an internship and we connected at church as students. We got engaged however, I had to return here to serve national service while she went back home and we eventually got married. But since my career breakthrough with Steinway, I had to travel more than before. However, it’s anything but routine. Travel brings new experiences. You never know what surprises await. Travelling feels like constantly putting out fires, solving new problems daily. You might miss a flight due to a forgotten form to fill in or end up in a strange hotel room with six others. The unpredictability keeps things interesting.
ESQ: Do you have a favourite destination to perform in?
WQY: It depends. Each country offers unique cultural experiences, and even cities within the same country can vary greatly. If I had to choose, I would say my favourite destination to perform in is Italy. [It] seems to check all my boxes: they got history, they got the views, incredible food. You can find anything you desire inItaly, after all, that’s where the piano and the violin were invented.
ESQ: You’ve been playing the piano since you were three. How have you managed to sustain your passion and interest in the piano?
WQY: I think there’s a misconception that all musicians have to start early. While many successful ones do, I started at three but only became truly interested around 12 or 13. This gives me an advantage when it comes to teaching because I understand the difficulties that can make learning annoying and uninteresting. Learning an instrument should come from within, not from external pressures. If your parents are forcing you, or you’re only practising to pass an exam, that’s not passion; it’s just fulfilling obligations. This is becoming more challenging with social media. Kids today can quickly find tutorials on YouTube for any song, but they don’t realise the hours of practice required to master apiece. Learning an instrument isn’t just about the instrument; it’s about understanding your body and how it reacts to the music. Many people get confused about this. There’s also a cultural aspect. In European families, parents might be overly encouraging even if their children are not very talented. Conversely, in Asian families, even if you play well, your parents might think it’s not good enough. It can be frustrating.Even now, when I practice at home, I sometimes feel that my mom is annoyed by my playing. She never attended any of my concerts until recently, and that was only because the Minister of Culture was there and she wanted a photo with him.
ESQ: Have your parents accepted you being a professional pianist?
WQY: Yes, a long time ago. When I came back for National Service, they kinda accepted it. At that time, I believe I was one of the few Singaporeans who dropped out of school to pursue music. Naturally, my parents were against it. For me, the only goal was to survive. Sometimes in life, when you don’t have a choice, it can be the best thing that happens because you either make it or fail. In Singapore, we have so many options and safety nets that it can be easy to lose sight of your dreams. That was my life in secondary school—teachers said I was good at certain things and should pursue them but I wasn’t passionate about any of those paths. First, if I hadn’t made it, I wouldn’t be doing this interview. Second, if my parents had supported me, I might be successful but I wouldn’t be as motivated. That’s why I own music schools, organise festivals and help young people with their music careers. I enjoy those things and it keeps me driven. I could have just opened a school and retired comfortably, but I chose a different path. Most musicians just practise and disregard the public relations aspect. While you can hire someone for admin work, building personal relationships and selling your art is a skill every musician in this era should learn. I was a student practising in a room for 10 hours a day, unknown to anyone. Then I met an agent who taught me how to market myself, and it changed everything.
ESQ: Are things different now compared to the past, especially with the rise of social media?
WQY: For sure, things are very different now. Today, you’ll need to be the first to respond to get the gig. That said, 99 per cent of the time, it’s luck—being in the right place at the right time; meeting the right people. It’s all about probabilities.Now, everything is digital. Interviews can be done over the phone, via video call, or by e-mail. The rise of social media and digital communication has dramatically changed the landscape, making everything faster and more immediate.
ESQ: You mentioned that you went to National Service.
WQY: There isn’t an official vocation for it but when I was in the band during National Service. I was appointed to the SCDF(Singapore Civil Defence Force) and When I was a recruit, they reviewed my profile and saw that I had a degree in music. It was pure luck that I met a guy recruiting musicians for his band and he invited me to audition, even though I told him I don’t sing. He assured me it was fine, so I auditioned and got in. For the rest of my NS life, I just played the piano.
ESQ: What was that like?
WQY: As a classical musician, I had never really dabbled in pop-music. When you’re part of the band, I had to improvise and play with others, which meant practising different genres. They offered incentives: if I play a certain song, I could get a day off. If I rehearsed a piece and the commissioners were pleased, I get two days off. By the end, I had accumulated about 70 days off.
ESQ: Do you feel less nervous in front of an audience?
WQY: I still get nervous when there’s a high chance of messing up or when I don’t feel ready. There’s always a professional conscience reminding me if I’m not adequately prepared.
ESQ: Any rituals before you go on stage?
WQY: Yeah, I like to eat pasta before a concert. It brings back memories. I ate pasta when I was really poor. Pasta with cheese brings me back to simplicity. Eating carbs before a concert gives me energy, makes me feel good, and gives me a sense of control. Now that I consider myself successful, I’m still eating pasta. The dish always played a big role in my life, especially during important moments. Whenever I win a competition and it’s late at night with everything closed, pasta is usually the only option.
ESQ: You’ve established the Piano Island Festival.
WQY: That idea came from my desire to minimise travel and bring renowned teachers to a central location. It evolved into a gathering where I could meet my musical idols. One of the highlights of organising the festival was having Đng Thái Sn. He was the first Asian winner of the Chopin Competition and he agreed to attend my festival which was such an honour Interestingly, there’s a unique connection to Réunion Island.During the Vietnam War, the French exiled the Vietnamese king to Réunion Island to prevent a revolution. One of the king’s descendants, Dorothy, is a family friend I met in church. ĐngThái Sn’s mother, was the first piano teacher in Vietnam and was curious about this royal lineage. When Đng Thái Sn joined the festival, his mother, then 103 years old, wanted to explore their heritage. I mentioned how having luck is important but this series of events shows how luck and destiny can work together.
ESQ: How has public interest in classical music evolved in Singapore since the pandemic?
WQY: Interest in classical music has grown a lot in Singapore lately. After COVID, in 2022, I played at Victoria Concert Hall. At that time, we could only fill 40 per cent of the seats; so about 200 people filled a 600+ seated space. However, two months ago, I had another concert here and it was a full house. The tickets were more expensive too so it’s not about the money but rather a sudden surge in interest. There’s a noticeable development in young people’s interest in music, not just classical but in general. When Taylor Swift played here, it was crazy.
ESQ: How can the Piano Island Festival boost the local classical music scene?
WQY: I hope to use it as a platform to introduce this art form to those who are unfamiliar with it. Southeast Asia holds many potential because of its growing population and increasing number of children learning instruments. Singapore is an ideal location for this. We have excellent instruments, a robust education system and a strong infrastructure. Ultimately, it comes down to the educational system to incorporate music and provide children with the opportunity to learn music in school.
ESQ: In 2020, there was a survey saying that artists were non-essential, what are your thoughts on that?
WQY: I posted about it. I think it’s inaccurate because it’s based on opinions from people who don’t understand music or the arts. If you survey 300 office workers, you’ll get responses from an office worker’s perspective.When I left Singapore, the situation for musicians was much worse than it is now. My parents believed there was no future for musicians here; there was some truth to that. In France, I can play up to five concerts a week, even in the same city but in different venues. I couldn’t play in the Esplanade Concert Hall twice a month. Singapore is highly developed, which is why it couldn’t support local musicians at that time—they weren’t considered good enough. The expectations were too high. It’s like recruiting football players and expecting them to be the next Messi. You can’t escape the reality of our artistic careers. We must Travel. I believe the next developing markets are Indonesia and then Malaysia. Even if you’re based somewhere, like me, travelling every three days, you can’t avoid it.
ESQ: Do you believe adjustments are needed in Singapore for careers in the arts to receive proper recognition?
WQY: I don’t think Singapore needs to undergo any major changes. In fact, Singapore already possesses a thriving market for the arts.It may surprise you to learn that there is a significant population of affluent individuals residing here. This became apparent to me after I had the opportunity to mingle with this demographic. Once you become part of this network, recommendations start pouring in, and one connection leads to another. When I was younger, living in Singapore, my routine was ordinary: attending school, enjoying local cuisine like chicken rice and focusing on my studies. On the flip side, there are people residing in Sentosa. They have beachfront homes with yachts. BeforeI knew it, I found myself aboard a luxurious boat, surrounded by individuals discussing the local vibrant art scene. It was fascinating to discover wealthy individuals who appreciate the arts but they also invest in them.
ESQ: How do you stay creative?
WQY: I disconnect from the Internet during the day. You have to belike Tarzan or Luke Skywalker to be creative. If you’re just another person going to the office, setting up your desk, typing, shutting down your computer, and going home, you’re living robotically. That stifles creativity. To be creative, break out of your routine. That’s what I’ve been doing. I never practice more than twice a day. If something isn’t working, I’d walk. I’d try different approaches—crossing my hands, playing upside down, or lying down. This keeps my practice fresh and prevents burnout. I also vary my teaching methods to keep my students engaged. If a student seems unmotivated, I might have them run a couple of laps to get their energy up. When you can’t do something, it’s rarely a physical issue. Your mind tells your body it can’t do it and you feel stuck. Learning an instrument helps build resilience. Music teaches you to solve problems and persevere. I’ve learned that I can solve problems in life and shouldn’t wait for solutions to come to me.
ESQ: Do you have a motto that guides you in life?
WQY: “Never beg for a seat if you can build your own table.” When you’re starting your career, facing rejection is inevitable. I’ve experienced it first-hand. Unlike instruments like the violin or guitar, where multiple players can perform simultaneously, the piano often allows for just one pianist at a time. With countless talented pianists out there, it’s tough to stand out. You have to create your opportunities—I formed my own music schools, organised piano festivals and built up my network of connections. This approach isn’t exclusive to music; it applies to every industry.
ESQ: It’s also trying to bounce back from failure, right? Because failure is essential for growth
WQY: Life would be simpler without it. But failures are a reminder of being human; they teach us it’s okay to stumble. I’ve noticed how people sometimes judge based on appearances. There have been instances where, despite being a featured performer with my face on the poster, I’ve been denied entry backstage simply because I wasn’t dressed in formal attire. It’s moments like these that reinforce the importance of self-confidence and staying true to oneself.
Since its inception in a riverside warehouse on Jiak Kim Street, Zouk has been the epicentre of Singapore’s nightlife. Founded by Lincoln Cheng, the 35,000-square foot club thrived in an ever-evolving industry. Its success can be attributed to key figures like general manager Benny Heng, marketing manager Tracy Phillips, and later Sofie Chandra.
Also instrumental to Zouk’s legacy was Wayne Lee, who oversaw music and entertainment. Today, Lee is the general manager of HighHouse and NOVA, two dining concepts under OUE Restaurants. On a cloudy afternoon, we talk with Lee at HighHouse.
ESQUIRE: How is HighHouse different from Zouk?
WAYNE LEE: There’s the dining element, which is quite a big thing and that extends to the rooftop when we open up in July. The whole venue is OUE Sky: there’s HighHouse and NOVA—two concepts in one venue. What I used to deal with back at Zouk was more music- based. Here, there are four pillars, which are music, food, beverage and art.
We are into our fifth month and our dining has been quite stable; most of our meal services are filled out nicely; the menu direction is quite clear. We’ve been quite successful at stabilising that.
A lot more can be done about pushing out house and techno music that we believe in and getting it out there. Which is if you look at our programming, we have a couple of international DJs coming in. They are aligned to the kind of sounds that we’re doing and we want to do more collaborations with local music collectives. Building the local scene is quite important.
Back at Jiak Kim Street, the art was a little more intense, right? Lincoln [Cheng, founder of Zouk] had all these wild pieces like Keith Haring’s “Healing Hand” but when the club moved to Clarke Quay, there were space constraints so art wasn’t the main focus. But at HighHouse, my bosses are quite keen to get some relevant pieces on the ample wall space.
ESQ: Are you art savvy?
WL: I go to art fairs, I visit museums overseas. I wouldn’t say that I’m an art connoisseur but I do enjoy the medium.
ESQ: So, what’s the idea behind NOVA?
WL: We were inspired by festivals, right? Not just music festivals but festivals in general. That was a big inspiration for the space. Coachella, for example, some of the stages themselves are built around large installations. Burning Man [culminates in setting fire to a giant effigy]. Which explains the [10-metre] star structure at NOVA. We commissioned this artist Jun Ong from Penang—we saw his work at ART SG about two years ago. He’s great at installations, basically lighting installations.
ESQ: We heard the opening of NOVA was delayed.
WL: We are reworking the interior design to make it more futuristic. We were done but felt that it didn’t really measure up to the branding yet. I feel that once NOVA opens up, everything will fall into place; there’d be more opportunities for activities like yoga, your fitness stuff.
ESQ: You had started at the magazine, Juice.
WL: Back then the [Juice] office was at Scotts Road and that was one of the reasons why I wanted to work there. I was freelancing for them. Being quite keen to continue working for Juice, I took up a full-time position after I graduated.
I was very into electronic music, which helped. I was studying journalism in Melbourne and their rave culture was quite strong and that inspired me. So, when I returned to Singapore and there was quite an interesting underground electronic music scene between 2001 and 2004. This was the period where the government was more lax on people using venues and the neighbours weren’t complaining so much about the noise. I’d write about the scene. The process was so old school that I’d take pictures with this crappy DSLR and develop the photos.
ESQ: You had to shoot as well?
WL: Yeah, I took photos and wrote the reviews when I first started. I had to develop the film at Lucky Plaza. I remember that I had to pick five photos out of the 26.
That was what got me into Juice, the love of electronic music. Not so much the clubbing and partying—those were a byproduct. Juice started to change at that point because we needed the ad revenue, right? We were a free magazine and we needed to attract more advertisers. So we moved into the fashion space but we were not fashion people. The one thing that we could tap on was that the rave culture was connected to streetwear. We brought that element in. Me and the team were inspired by Japanese men’s magazines like Popeye. We had to go to Kinokuniya and buy it along with i-D and Dazed and Confused. That was quite a good time.
ESQ: How did you get to work at Zouk?
WL: It’s really a combination of circumstances. Because I worked at Juice, I was in close contact with Zouk’s marketing team and Lincoln as well. When they opened up a head of entertainment role, sort of a music director gig, in 2011, I was the first person they thought of and they approached me for it. I had been nine years in music publishing at the time, so I thought, since I’m already doing the theory portion of it, I might as well do the practical. That’s how I got to work for Zouk.
ESQ: What’s an average day for you at HighHouse?
WL: The office starts early. And meetings take up a large part of my afternoon all the way to about dinnertime. Then, from dinnertime onwards, I try to be on the ground [at HighHouse] just to make sure service is in order; to make sure our guests are settling in nicely. On certain nights—obviously, we do some late-night programming on Wednesday, Friday or Saturdays—I try to stay late. Again, just to see how things are going. Letting my presence be felt, I guess [laughs].
ESQ: This goes beyond your typical nine-to-five. Are the hours something that you took to easily?
WL: I came on board with OUE Restaurants in 2022 so I spent a good year-and-a-half being in a regular office working regular office hours; I enjoyed it. So now I’m back to those long, weird hours, but I’m used to it, because back at Zouk, it was the same thing, right? Daytime, I’d handle the corporate stuff and at night, I’d handle the nightlife.
ESQ: But is it easier now or harder?
WL: Harder. Back at Zouk, in my 30s, it was easier. It was also different because that environment had more high energy. We had a club that hosted 1,500, 2,000 people at any one time. That was intense. But now at HighHouse, the product is quite focused so we don’t have to bring in so many different demographics. We have a certain target audience and the music direction is clearer. The total capacity at HighHouse is about 400.
ESQ: Is social media important to what you do?
WL: I think it’s super important now, man. We’re always talking about Gen-Zs relating to TikTok and stuff. I was in Shanghai two months ago and... You know 小红书 [“Little Red Book” in Mandarin]? It’s big over there. I signed up for an account because I wanted to look for vintage shops in Shanghai but suddenly, I’m fed with other content like techwear, cycling...
So, yeah. social media is important. Especially when you’re running a business establishment, right? But, it’s important that you’re tapping onto the right platform. 小红 书started out as a place where people came to discover places of interest to go to but now it’s the equivalent of Instagram in China.
ESQ: China is ahead when it comes to connectivity.
WL: I’m really impressed by Shanghai. Everything is online for them. Lose your phone in China and you’re screwed.
ESQ: Do you think Singapore can get to that stage?
WL: It’s tough because we are not a super-huge city. We won’t get to where China is but what we have right now isn’t bad. Hopefully, Singapore will get there one day.
ESQ: What was your childhood like?
WL: It was good. I was quite blessed. Parents are mostly supportive. My dad was an engineer and my mom was a school English teacher. My dad was always urging me to take up mathematics, which I hated. And then I screwed up my A-Levels so badly that he gave up. But they gave me a very comfortable childhood, a good environment to grow up in.
ESQ: Are they still on your back about your life choices?
WL: My dad passed last year but he was ok with where I am today. My mom has, well, a lot to say, you know, because I’m still single so there’s that. If it happens, it happens, right?
ESQ: How was the pandemic for you?
WL: I don’t know about you guys but it was the worst. I mean, minus the pay cuts [at Zouk and the deaths] I think it was a reset button for a lot of people that I knew and a lot of efforts were taken to sustain the business.
ESQ: The pivots.
WL: Yeah. Back then, we put 50 bikes in the main room at Zouk and converted it into a spin cycle class. Capital [a whisky bar and cigar room] was turned into a restaurant. We even worked with Lazada to convert Phuture into a live-streaming studio... that lasted for a good three or four months before they decided to do their own studio. So that was challenging but it was nice. There was a sort of team spirit going on during the pivots. And I also enjoyed some normal hours, ending at 10:30pm instead of 4am, so that was quite nice.
ESQ: Was it worrying? Because, at the time, nobody knew when they could see the light at the end of the tunnel.
WL: It was frustrating because the first year when we pivoted, we thought by December 2020 it should be over, right? Everyone believed that myth that this was like SARS and the pandemic would soon be over. But it didn’t get better and then it got worse with the [COVID] variants popping up. We had to downsize the team quite a bit. It was painful to do but it had to be done.
That gave us a new thought process in how we run the business. If you look at Zouk, you see it is trying to expand overseas to Vegas, to Japan, by working towards F&B projects combined with nightlife concepts like fine dining with ultra lounges. Since COVID, operating solely on nightlife has shown its risks, hence diversification.
ESQ: What kind of manager are you?
WL: I think... I genuinely think I operate with empathy. I’m not the sort who goes like, “it’s my way or the highway”. I try to give the team a lot of room to run and grow in... but then again I am very blessed that to have quite an experienced team, both for the front and back of the house. Occasionally there will come a time to bring down the hammer, so I’ll do it. But as much as I can, I will try not to. I usually tell everyone that we are all adults, right?
ESQ: You also get to wear a suit and tie at HighHouse.
WL: [looks at his short-sleeved shirt and jeans] Yeah, sorry to let you down. [laughs]
ESQ: You don’t dress like that at Zouk.
WL: Because we operate a dining space, so out of respect for Steven, my manager, who is already in a blazer, I try to be in a suit and tie. It was a huge change from the Zouk days. Now I’m dressed up so that people can take me more seriously. [laughs]
ESQ: Any pet peeves?
WL: Sometimes people are not willing to change. It takes a while, of course. But, in our industry, change is the only constant; we always have to adapt and flip. When you are working with an older generation of managers and workers, it takes a while for them to be flexible. It’s frustrating but you still need to be patient to explain to them and get them on the same course.
ESQ: What’s your biggest fear?
WL: My biggest fear? That’s a really good one. So far all my work in Singapore has touched on culture, right? My fear is Singapore becoming stagnant culturally instead of moving forward. I’m talking about soft culture and things like that. Generally, things have been getting better. Singapore has always been a nation that’s built on finance, manufacturing and stuff like that. And obviously, what we call soft culture is super sub, right? Our generation did well but there are still purveyors pushing the scene in music, art, design, and stuff like that, and of course, aided by the government. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn’t but I’m hoping the next generation can continue.
It has to be a generational effort. This generation sets the path and the next gen will come in and take it forward. Let’s talk about culture, right? Obviously, there are your Edison Chens, Shawn Yues, John Mayers, the Pharrells even. They have gone from being musicians to extend themselves into fashion, designing watches even. They have done their part. So the next generation has to take over. Tyler, the Creator, he’ll be the next wave, right? He’s going to be the next Pharrell.
Going back to your earlier question about what I’m afraid of is that: I know there are a lot of very good content creators on TikToks who are in their 20s. But can we name that many? Can we find another, for example, Tracy Phillips? I feel that it’s tough to find someone of that calibre. Maybe it’s because the scene is quite diluted as everybody is doing it so it’s hard to stand out.
ESQ: You struck me as someone who prefers to be behind the scenes.
WL: You’re right. I don’t go to events, I stay at the back of the room. Eleven years of the club scene and my social battery is at its lowest. But now with the OUE Sky project, HighHouse and NOVA, I do have to be at the forefront of things to help push the brand.
ESQ: Along with Lincoln and Tracy, your name pops up as one of the few architects of the way the club scene is.
WL: Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it. It’s nice that in the course of what I’ve done, at least, my efforts have amounted to something.
ESQ: What do you like to do in your free time?
WL: I used to skateboard when I was younger but I’ve stopped. I’m trying to get back to the board again. I [laughs] can’t do the ollies and stuff. Actually, I cleared one but these days, my risk appetite is a lot less. So I just cruise along East Coast Park. It’s that or running.
ESQ: Do you fear getting old?
WL: Definitely. I think it is on everyone’s mind but—and this is going to sound corny—it kind of pushes you to do more each day because you know time is limited.
ESQ: Was this a recent realisation?
WL: I’m 43 going 44 and I think when you hit your 40s, you tend to think a lot more about the time that’s left and how much more you can achieve. Sometimes I can’t believe I’m middle aged, but it is what it is so you have to make the best of it. [points to his tattoo] “Memento mori”. Remember that you’ll die so you’ll appreciate life. [laughs] This all sounds dark.
ESQ: What’s that one book you always go back to?
WL: One of my favourite authors is Paul Auster, who died recently...
ESQ: I love Auster’s metafiction.
WL: Power, right? He passed away a few days ago. Very sad. Lung cancer. [thinks for a while]. [Haruki] Murakami is another. I’d usually return to Kafka by the Shore.
ESQ: Was that an introduction to the rest of Murakami’s work?
WL: That would be Norwegian Wood. Another book would be JD Salinger, [The] Catcher in the Rye. These are the few books that I’d reread if I had the time.
ESQ: Do you have enough time to do so though?
WL: The funny thing is that if the book is on a Kindle, you don’t read it as much as when it was a paperback. But I still buy books on Kindle due to space constraints, right? And my concentration on a Kindle is so limited. Ten pages and I put the device down. When it comes to the tactility of it, paperbacks can’t be beat.
ESQ: I usually borrow from the library so the due date forces me to finish it.
WL: That’s amazing. And that brings me to this one habit that I feel all of us should adopt, and that is, before sleeping, instead of going through Instagram, we should read. It’s tempting to pick up the phone and scroll through our social media but I’m trying to return to flipping the pages in books.
This interview was edited for length and clarity.
Photography: Jaya Khidir
Art Direction: Joan Tai
Photography Assistants: Nowo Kasturi and Ng Kai Ming
