From founding the menswear label, Faculty, and leading the branding consultancy &Larry, Peh now channels his attention (and love for sake) into his latest venture, NORMAT. The brand, developed under Archivist—a company he co-founded with Craig Neo and Keith Ong—launched its inaugural line of sake, offering a modern twist on a tradition. Peh’s dedication led him to Japan, where he personally visited breweries to pitch his vision. We sat with him at ÁTIPICO | ROOM #15 to discuss his journey into sake and the launch of NORMAT.

ESQUIRE: How did you first come across sake? 

LARRY PEH: I can’t remember exactly. Maybe around 15 years ago. I’ve never been a fan of wine, especially red wine, probably because I’m sensitive to tannins. Maybe less so from super expensive wine.

ESQ: What happens when you drink alcohol or wine?

LP: I get headaches and can’t function the next day (laughs). I had a billionaire client from Tokyo who loves sake. He had breweries exclusively making sake for him, different kinds for different meals or events, like meetings, lunches, dinners or celebrations. One night before a big presentation, the company threw a huge celebration and I had a lot of sake. I didn’t notice the amount I had until one of the clients asked if I’d be okay for the presentation the next morning. That’s when I recalled I had to be up early for it, but, of course, I said yes.

ESQ: How did you feel the next day? 

LP: I completely forgot about the drinking and went ahead with my presentation. I did great and people applauded. As I was leaving, the same client from the night before said he had a great night. That’s when I made a connection ” Oh my God, this is actually my superpower.” 

That’s how my obsession with sake started. I travelled around Nagano, and Hiroshima in Japan, supporting local sake breweries. Every manufacturer will have its own nuances and a different way of brewing. I would try different types and get drunk as a tourist walking around with small bottles but that’s how I discovered the brands I love.

ESQ: What brands do you like? 

LP: The first one was Shichiken, which won some awards. To be honest, I didn’t know much at first, but just like every layman, I saw the award label and thought, “wah... it's award-winning, have to buy". I bought one bottle, drank it in my hotel room while doing some work and went on as usual the next day. 

ESQ: How did the name NORMAT come about? 

LP: It’s based on the word “normative,” meaning to make something a norm. I shortened it to NORMAT because I wanted to take something traditional, put it in a modern context, and set a new standard. For example, fried chicken and beer became a norm thanks to Korean culture. I want NORMAT to be the same. Whether it’s Indian food or Char Kway Teow, let’s pair it with NORMAT. That’s my hope for the name.

ESQ: So what’s your approach to sake?

LP: I wanted to create a sake that is both complex and simple, something anyone can enjoy. But most importantly, I wanted it to pair well with more than just Japanese food. Singapore has a global cuisine like French, Italian, Peranakan, Indian dishes, you name it. My sake should work with all of them. I remember I experimented by ordering all kinds of food and trying different sake pairings during COVID-19. I mean I had nothing better to do, it was lockdown season. 

ESQ: Was there a baseline of cuisines to experiment with?

LP: I didn’t have a baseline. I never knew what my wife would cook or what friends might bring over, so I’d try different sakes with whatever came. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not. I took notes and figured out what kind of sake would work best.

ESQ: So a lot of trial and error?

LP: Yes definitely, and eventually I realised I had something. I created a sake that could work with almost any dish. That’s how NORMAT sake came to be. I didn’t want to focus on pairing, like “this sake goes with this dish.” I wanted harmony, a sake that balances with the food, not clashes. 

ESQ: It’s like a new discovery.

LP: Yeah exactly, I kept looking at the market and I saw a gap. Nobody was really doing what I wanted to do. So I kept working on it until I got it. 

I talked about pairing earlier, which comes from the culinary world like wine and sake pairing. Sake has gotten into this pairing trend, but to me, that felt more like a burden. When you talk about pairing, it’s like me with you, or A with B, but I thought what if we stop thinking about pairing and look for some kind of harmony instead? A balance where sake doesn’t clash with whatever you’re eating. If it clashes, forget it, drink water or something else. 

So that is why we created the one-of-a-kind NORMAT sake. I couldn’t make one bottle to go with everything, so I made two. Maybe next year we’ll have a third. But for now, these two can go with almost everything. 

ESQ: You’re very confident. What makes you so sure?

LP: Some dishes will work beautifully and harmoniously. For others, it’ll just be nice to go with. If you take the idea of pairing out, there are a lot of things these two sakes can do. I’ve even tried them with pastries and coffee. I’m going against the grain. The Japanese might say, “You can’t do that with this,” but why not? I’m basically slowly pushing boundaries—not breaking them—but seeing where and how far sake can go. 

ESQ: Did you get your ideal sake on your first try? 

LP: What’s interesting is you can’t just add things and get it right, you have to brew it first. There was a lot of communication during the process. I had to get the trust and blessing from the farmers, that’s how it works traditionally. The brewery helps the farmer in summer, and the farmer helps the brewery in winter. I had to explain what kind of sake I wanted, and the farmer would tell me which rice would be best.

We drank a lot of sake to map out what we liked—notes from one, umami from another. I’d say, "The alcohol percentage is too low here, let’s mix this rice." Based on their experience and what I felt, we planned it all out, then we made it together. The first time I tasted it was straight from the tank, unpasteurised, undiluted. There’s a video online of my partner Craig and I tasting it and saying, “Yes, this is it.”

ESQ: How long did it take?

LP: Working with them took two years, but the actual brewing took about three to six months. We weren’t there all the time. After we planned everything, the brewing started, and we were there whenever they needed help.

ESQ: Are you able to replicate this process in other batches as well?

LP: Yes yes, it’s not a problem because it’s quite scientific for them. Also, I had the chance to farm on the land, which was a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

ESQ: How long did you farm for? 

LP: Just for a day (laughs). But a lot of it is automated. We drove in a vehicle that couldn’t fit into some areas, that’s when the farmers manually planted it. 

They created a beautiful logo using rice; you can see it on our Instagram. It changes colour with the seasons—from summer to autumn, winter and then [the leaves go] "botak" (Malay word for bald). You can see the logo transform through the seasons. I realised through working with them that trust and becoming like family are what make things happen. It’s different from just talking about money.

ESQ: Did you have to learn Japanese to communicate with them? 

LP: I tried but I didn’t have time for formal lessons. My Japanese is bad and I can't speak much but I have a natural flair for understanding people even if I don’t speak the language. I use a translator, body language, and a few words I’ve picked up. They don’t always speak their minds so I pay attention to certain words or gestures to understand if I’m on the right track.

ESQ: What did you do when you were looking for a brewery to work with?

LP: I narrowed it down to a few brands I loved but everybody turned me down. Including Kubiki who finally agreed to work with me. They were one of the many who initially said no.

ESQ: Why did you go back to the brewery after they rejected you?

LP: It’s interesting because there are many sakes that I love, but Kubiki Shuzo wasn’t on my original list. I didn’t know about them and hadn’t tried their sake. A friend of a friend took me to Niigata to see some breweries and as usual, they refused.

We visited a bronze sculptor on the last day and he asked if we had tried Kubiki Brewery. I had never heard of it until he started praising it, saying he had tried every sake in Japan but always came back to Kubiki. I tried it and wasn’t sure at first. I returned to Singapore and continued trying other sakes but I couldn’t stop thinking about that brewery. I ordered more bottles and kept returning to them. There was something about their sake—this lingering aftertaste—the umami that stays with you. I went back again and again, proposing new ideas. Eventually, I think they were charmed by my sincerity and after many months, they finally said yes.

ESQ: Why do you think so many breweries rejected you?

LP: First of all, I'm an outsider. Secondly, they stick to tradition, and they probably thought I wasn’t serious. They didn’t tell me this directly, but I could feel it. Thirdly, maybe it was insulting to say I wanted to create a type of sake I couldn’t find. When I said that, it likely put them off—like, what do you mean we don’t have this kind of sake? They’d offer other sakes instead, thinking they already had what I was looking for. It felt more like competition than cooperation, rather than looking at my idea and saying, “You’re right, there’s a gap. Let’s create something new together.”

ESQ: What was your vision for working with sake?

LP: I wanted to create a brand that bridges traditions and modern design. The idea was, that if we love these traditional things, we can do something to keep them relevant so they don’t disappear. That’s how NORMAT started. When I sit with my parents or older folks, they always talk about how things used to be, and I hear the same from the Japanese. 

ESQ: But sake isn’t going to die out, is it?

LP: It’s actually declining in Japan. There are about 1,700 breweries now, and only 1000 are still active.

ESQ: Why is that?

LP: Sake is typically seen as an old man’s drink in Japan and is mainly tied to Japanese food. The younger crowd prefers champagne and other “cool” drinks. Many first encounters with sake are bad experiences, like cheap sake, bad taste. Sake is growing globally but declining in Japan. For instance, Singapore is now ranked sixth in the world for premium imports, even though we’re a small country. The rest of the world is catching up while Japan lags behind. 

As a sake sommelier myself, I still find it confusing when looking at sake. Especially from lesser-known brands with descriptions that require Google Translate. Many sake brands have become more modern with English labels but even so, there's still a bit of "mumbo jumbo" to figure it out. I thought what if I could create a sake that is complex yet simple enough for anyone to enjoy?

ESQ: You're known for collaboration in your design work. What’s special about collaborating with others?

LP: It’s the classic Singaporean story. We’re a small country so I can’t do everything in-house. I work with people who are experts in their fields and we share knowledge to create something new. It’s not about exploiting each other; if we both bring something strong and relevant, something great can happen. That’s how I’ve always worked, whether it was for &Larry or for NORMAT. The brewery saw my point of view and agreed it was worth experimenting and working to create something new.

ESQ: Does this mean the sake is only suited to Singaporean climates? 

LP: No, one thing I’m proud of is its versatility. My favourite way to drink it is straight, which goes against the usual advice from breweries or sommeliers. Sake is traditionally meant to be paired with food but I wanted it to be something you can enjoy on its own. Whether you’re alone, watching Netflix, or at a small gathering, it should work. I told the brewery that they needed to check all these boxes. It was a tough brief, but they made it happen.

ESQ: It sounds almost too good to be true that a sake can fit so many palates.

LP: I think so, I’m confident in it but you have to try it for yourself to see how it behaves with different foods. One is more elegant and slightly sweet, while the other is drier and more acidic, so it pairs well with more complex dishes. Some people have described them as more masculine or feminine. You don’t need to be a sommelier to tell. Everyone’s taste buds are different, but either one won’t fail you. It’s about finding harmony.

Photography: Jaya Khidir